Blog #66 – War of 1812 Debate
You’ve heard the arguments, now decide where America should have headed that summer of 1812.
Bro, lend me your advice.
Let’s say you had President Madison’s ear (no, not really, that would be gross). But let’s say you could sway him with your amazing argumentation skills.
And you’d just heard the four arguments (which I’m about to sum up for those reading at home):
Option 1 – All out war with Britain – this means invading Canada to stop them from supplying our Indians w/ weapons; it also means setting sail to do battle with the mammoth British navy. Yes, that British navy. We must defend ourselves and our rights from being violated.
Option 2 – Strictly limited to naval war – land invasion is too costly and Canada might be a pesky target to invade (who knew?), therefore, we’ll attack them in the Caribbean while the British are busy w/ the French. Or we’ll bombard Canadian towns. Or make mayhem on the high seas.
Option 3 – wait until we’re ready to make war – obviously Britain is too big and burly right now, so let’s wait until we build up our meager armed forces into something a little more formidable and then go and attack. We might just catch them by surprise. Everyone loves a good surprise.
Option 4 – Peace is the only recourse – seriously? You want to take on the British? The last time we battled them we had loads of help, and this time around we can’t even count on that. Our army is small and navy is miniscule by comparison. Rights, smights, who needs them?
Using notes from the debate, and your own common sense, give President Madison your learned opinion who will then steer America on the correct course. Nothing is at stake here but the future of the country. No pressure.
Your opinion is due by class on Thursday, October 30. 250 words minimum.
If I were someone in President Madison’s cabinet and he asked me for advice on what to do about the War of 1812, I would tell him to take option 3, wait until we are ready for war. At this point war is going to happen, but we can delay it for sure. There are a few reasons I would say this including, the size of our Navy is about 16 ships and pales in comparison to the 800 British ships. So that almost totally rules out Naval war with the British. Negotiating peace won’t work because we know that they don’t want to talk peace, but on the other hand if we wage an all out war at this point the British would wipe us out entirely. And as a result of this Britain would most likely revoke our independence thus putting us back at square one. If we wait for our navy and army to grow in size some more, we could get a few surprise shots in on Britain which would be good in many ways. Perhaps if our Navy is more experienced the British will underestimate us and we will have a quick and easy victory. While the drawbacks to waiting are a British surprise attack, you have to be willing to take that risk because of the home field advantage that America would have in the war. And finally, though war is inevitable and we can stop it or delay it, that doesn’t mean that there has to be casualties as a result of well trained armies and navies.
Skyeler McQueen
5th Hour
APUSH BLOG #66
War of 1812 Debate
If I could advise James Madison, I would suggest Option Two: Limited Naval War. This is the most logical response to the British infractions along to the American coastline. Attacking our ships only miles from the coast, the British have been impressing our sailors. In response we should attack them solely in the place where they attacked us: the high seas.
A simple maritime war would be the most poignant way to respond to England. Many officials agreed, including James Monroe and Congressman Samuel Mitchell. At the time only Secretary of State, future President James Monroe said, “I am convinced that it is very important to attempt, at present, maritime war only”. Samuel Mitchell agreed, “An embargo ought to be accompanied with another-with letters of marque and reprisal. We ought to let the cannon accompany the flag. The voice of the cannon ought to speak the voice of the nation, under the flag of the nation”. Congressman Mitchell’s quote can be interpreted as him saying that Jefferson’s embargo should only be part of the plan; issuing letters of marque should be important as well. Encouraging American retaliation against the British, Samuel Mitchell promotes self-advocacy for Americans. Though he believes full war would be unnecessary, the Congressman believes that action must be taken.
The British were infringing on the American way of life by restricting our oceanic trade and impressing our men. The coastal American region had the largest population density and those people depended on the ocean. If the British took over that coastline, many people would be out of work thusly resenting the government for allowing that to happen. If we fought a war on the seas, we could prevent the harassment of Americans on the coast without unnecessarily invading Canada or causing major loss of life in a land battle. A war on water would be the fastest way to end this malicious maritime matter.
The American economy is also in an adequate situation for a maritime matter. We would be unable to support a full army, due to Jefferson’s Embargo act, which deeply hurt the economy. It would be more rational to fund a small navy to defend our shores and prohibit the British from even coming close to our comely coast.
Defending our rights and honor through limited maritime war is the greatest option in response to the British. It is the middle ground between the extremists who believe in destructive total war or who believe in the weak, passive, peace option. Even James Monroe agrees that America should wage a war of the seas.
Nate Wagner
Apush Blog 66
My advice to President Madison would be option 3, to wait until our country is prepared enough to fight a war. This is the only logical explanation based on the fact that our country is unprepared economically and militarily as well as the British having the finest fighting force in the world.
The fact of the matter is that our country is hopelessly unprepared for battle. Maritime war is a stupid option because our navy only has 16 ships that are makeshift merchant ships. This number is laughable compared to Britain’s 800 ships.. To add to that, we don’t even have a real army, we rely on unorganized and untrained state militias for protection, who would be slaughtered by the battle tested British. And where would we get the money for all of these war expenses? No where! We have no national bank to borrow money from and manage a national debt. In our economy based on agriculture, we are unprepared economically to handle this situation. Not to mention we don’t have the aid of other countries such as France anymore as we did in the revolution. More than 90% of our gunpowder was French.
All this being said, the British need to know we cannot be manipulated anymore. The impressments of our sailors was the last straw. We cannot sit by and let the British do what they want, when they want. One last surge is necessary in making sure that the British along with others know that this country can’t be recolonized. In this way, the war is necessary, but not at this dire time.
Given the four options and the constraints of the United States at this time, I would heavily advise that President Madison choose option 3, which involves waiting until the United States is prepared to go to war. As a nation, our rights have been violated and definitive treaties have been broached, a violation that would have been greeted with swift retaliation had it come from the Unites States as opposed to the British. We need to react and defend ourselves to make the point that we are not to be trifled with, however that point must be marked with resounding victory at battle or our respect from other nations will decline even further. At this moment in time, the United States has 16 ships prepared to go to war. This is but a fraction of the hundreds of warships Britain has at its disposal. We need to delay warfare until the navy of the United States can comparatively match that of Britain, enough so that war would be upon equal footing. The other issue with immediate warfare is lack of preparation. Currently the American armies are untrained and disorganized. With immediate battle, officers will have to act swiftly and cruelly to train soldiers so they won’t be utterly decimated. In doing this, resentments between soldiers and officers will arise, doing nothing but hindering the United States’ position in the war. If there are angers within the army itself, how can such division expect to unite and conquer? Given more time to prepare, officers needn’t be cruel, nor would they need to drive their soldiers at such a speed that the soldiers begin to dislike or disrespect their superiors. The warfare process will run smoothly within the ranks, which will ultimately lead to a more cohesive battlefront for the United States. Thus, given these two important wartime factors, I would advise President Madison against immediate warfare, but I would not discourage warfare altogether. The United States needs to prove itself, but it cannot do that without adequate preparation, making option 3 the best course at this time.
If I were to advise James Madison, I would choose option four, to not go to war. A war with Britain would be unconstitutional and we shouldn’t support France because Americans are not to support emperors. To fight against Britain, we would be helping France, France has impressed many of our soldiers as well as our ships. A Virginia Congressman, John Randolph said, “France has for years past offered us terms of undefined commercial arrangements as the price of war with England, which hitherto we have not wanted firmness and virtue to reject.” France has done us a great injustice and to fight Britain we would be fighting for greed.
The cost of the war would destroy the American economy. William Coleman wrote, “You will lose millions when you will gain a cent. The expense will be enormous. It will ruin our country. Direct taxes must be resorted to… Thousands of lives, millions of money, the flame of cities, the tears of widows and orphans, with them are light expedients when they lead to wealth and power.” The money, resources, and innocent people thrown into the war would leave us losing even if we were to win. We just won a War, our revolution, and thinking back to how much that cost us, we are still mending the aftermath. If we were to lose this war we could lose our independence which would leave us at square one. A war with Britain would cost us more in many ways than what we could ever gain from winning.
I believe that the most logical response to this issue is to wait to declare war while we arm ourselves. Britain is the strongest military power in the world. They have over 200,000 soldiers while we have just a mere 7,000 trained regulars. We do not have many competent generals, and we are without a national bank, so funds will be hard to come by. Declaring all out war with them right now would be suicide. There forces would be able to easily destroy our forces and take away the liberties we fought so hard for. And unlike the revolution, this time we don’t have French support or as passionate of a cause. As for the naval war option, there is the simple fact that we are outnumbered 800 ships to 16. How is that supposed to work out? Not to mention that Britain has the best navy in the world. However, war is still necessary. We must stop the impressments of sailors, as well as secure the borders against British armed Indians. War is necessary, but it can wait. If we take the time to recruit a somewhat sizable army, train competent officers and generals, and build more ships, the liberty we have fought so hard for will not be lost. It is important that we don’t make any rash decisions. The British are a formidable opponent. By continuing to embargo their goods, we can choke off their economy. While we wait and build our army they will be weakening themselves against napoleon. By the time that war is over, we will have a force capable of a successful campaign against the British. War is necessary, but now is not the time. If we wait to build our forces, we could very well beat the British.
If I had the ability to advise President James Madison, I would suggest option four. One reason I would choose option four is that since Great Britain’s Navy already commands the seas, why allow them with yet another opportunity to seize our merchant ships. Also, a war with Great Britain would ally our country with Napoleon. Napoleon is a tyrant who represents everything that our country has been working against for so long. France has also sized control of more of our ships in the past five years than Great Britain. Another reason to avoid entering into a war is that our country just won the Revolution, and we are still mending our debts. The economy is already crumbling, because we do not have a national bank to borrow money from, but entering into a war would destroy it as a whole. The expenses of the war will have to be payed off through heavy taxation on the citizens. If the war were to be fought, and lost, we are at risk of losing our independence. We simply are not prepared to wage a war against the country with the strongest navy in the entire world, the American army is disorganized as well as untrained. Lastly, during the revolution, we received aid from other countries to help with the war, of now, if we were enter into a war we would not receive any aid. In the end, America would lose much more from entering into war with Great Britain than we would gain.
My advice to President Madison would be option 3- wait until the United States is prepared to go to war with Great Britain. At this point, war with Great Britain is pretty much inevitable after trying to remain peaceful for so long. Great Britain continues to impress sailors and turn Indians against us, but if we were to go to war with them now, we would be setting ourselves up for disaster. First of all, the United States is simply not ready. Our army is disorganized, small, and untrained compared to Britain’s well-trained, battle hardened army. Our army is also miniscule next to Britain who had the most powerful army in the world at that point. In 1812, the U.S. had sixteen vessels which was a small fraction of the ships Britain had. Many of the United States’ generals had never seen battle before whereas the British had generals who had seen battle countless times and had experience. If our army were to go into war now, Britain would crush us. The army is young and still growing, so if we held out a little bit more, we would have a better chance at getting our rights. If we wait until war simmers down between Britain and France, and catch them off guard and unprepared, we will be able to advance upon them quicker than if we went to war now when everyone is prepared and fighting already. Keeping peace with Britain is impossible since we are already bickering with them already. Going into unlimited war will crush us as a nation because we are vastly unprepared to go to full out war right now, and a naval war will only result in death since our navy is so small. The only way to earn our rights and minimalize the amount of death is by waiting until we are prepared to go to war.
America can no longer put up with the British. Great Britain has failed to see us as an independent nation even after we fought for our well-deserved rights. The only way we are going to gain respect is through force. The United States simply cannot afford their disrespect to our independent nation.
Great Britain has impressed our sailors. We are in constant worry over being taken over by British ships. The United States’ trade has dropped dramatically as a result of impressment and the Orders in Council, which closes ports under French control to American shipping unless they stopped at a British port first. This act of impressment is hindering our growth as a nation.e
Great Britain has even gone as far as to turn Indians against the United States, which has resulted in Indian attacks on the frontier. The United States has held there peace for way too long. It is time to act now. The longer we wait the weaker we get. There is no saying that will will get stronger if we wait for war because at this moment we have limited land and resources. We must strike out against the Indian attacks and fight for our own rights as a nation.
As of now there is no other way out, except by unlimited war with Great Britain. The Indian people are still on our land that we fought for and protected. This gives our citizens less land to own. If we do not go to war with Britain, they will continue to weaken our nation and break our American spirits.
In my opinion option three is the best choice at this point for our country. I pondered over option one as well but I feel as though some of that can fall under the option three category. As of right now our country is puny compared to Britain so I think it would doom us to go to war. We need to deeply think about our options and recruit more people and supplies before we declare full on war. Britain has many more men and many more ships and could crush us if we aren’t careful. But I do think immediately after we are prepared we need to go to war to stop the horrible things Britain is doing to our country. For one the impressment of our sailors is unlawful and we will not stand for it. We also don’t want to be under the rule of their monarchial government any more and we want our independence from their controlling nation. Not to mention how they are giving Native Americans weapons to kill and attack us. We absolutely need to show the British who is boss and we will stand up for ourselves. They don’t take us seriously when we try to do things peacefully so I think that option would get us nowhere. We have already tried to make treaties and compromises with them yet still nothing has worked. Although this may slightly dent our financial supply I believe that we can most definitely build it back up as we recover from this war. Overall option three seems like the most successful for our country at this desperate time, we just need to be quick and efficient and we may realize we aren’t as bad off as we thought.
I would say Option 2 is the best option. The British aren’t actually done fighting Napoleon, so that mighty navy of 800 ships won’t actually be 800 ships against our 16. If we strike immediately, the British won’t be able to build more ships, where if we wait, they almost certainly will – even if they don’t know we plan to attack. Attacking British trade ships would be effective in dealing with them and revenge for their merciless acts towards our sailors and their beloved ships, the incident with Chesapeake will not go unpunished. If we initiate war on our grounds we will risk the lives of our civilians, and there is no possible way we could invade the island of Britain. We must not let Britain roll over us and take our rights, our nation will not be re-colonized and the Revolution will not be a vain attempt to bring democracy. We must use gunboats from the Tripolitan War, frigates, and privateers, this would allow for a versatile navy ready to take down the British ships of war. Allying with Napoleon does not mean we agree with him, and in fact allying with France against Britain will show nations that we return favors, France gave us Louisiana, and we’ll give them a hand. Since we are not trading with France or Britain, we are not supplying either army, avoiding conflict with the other European nations. Fighting this war does not entangle us in any alliances, Britain took our sailors, and we will avenge them. France has not been arming the Indians and planting territory on our borders, and Britain has. If we fight against Britain, then France should also stop impressing our soldiers, and the British can’t take sailors off of a ship bombarding them with cannonballs.
If I were someone who had argumentative skills that could get President Madison to be swayed, I would sway President Madison to go through with Option 2 or a limited naval war.
President Madison, you have four options that all have consequences. But the most reasonable and honestly smartest move, in my opinion, is to have a strict, limited naval war. Here are the reasons why. Firstly, by doing this, we aren’t risking our nation’s unity nor are we risking going into huge debt like what a ground or land war would lead to. Secondly, we are protecting our citizens from disunity because if we were to have an all out war with Britain, then we’ll have to spend more costly funds for our defenses meaning more tariffs and taxes would have to be established to pay for all of this. Tariffs and taxes have led to problems like Shay’s Rebellion and thoughts about secession. Thirdly, the little debt that may come from the limited maritime war, we can easily pay it off. We have had great leaders in the past that have solved our debt problem, for example, Andrew Jackson. Fourthly, our diverse population will be safer because their homes and lives have less chances of being destroyed. Fifthly, this is the logical and steadfast move since Britain is already in war with the French and it would be harder for Britain to take on two large unions. We have to act fast because if we continue letting the British seize our people and take away our rights to trade with other countries, they . Using force will be the only way to get the British to concede, and we know this through experience, or more specifically the Revolutionary War. Unlike the other options that speak of peace, if we take on this approach, not only does it show our ability to take action and fight for our rights, we show we are willing to win or lose with pride. We are a nation that has once fought for our independence and rights, now it is our turn to protect and maintain them. Avoiding costly funds, disunity, and to still fight for our rights as citizens that were guaranteed by the Constitution we must go with strictly limited naval war. Given all the reasons, go with Option 2 President Madison. Make this war a successful and memorable one.
If I was an advisor of James Madison, I would persuade him to take option number one, fight for our rights and honor through absolute war. This option does sound a bit insane given the fact that we are outnumbered by their navy and are without a budget, but it is with good reason that I chose option one. With the tariff being put on Britain and all trade between the two countries being completely cut off, our country had to adapt to the lack of imports so our economy slowly became more industrialized as the war progresses. In turn, giving us a source of materials and supplies for the war. Also, England has become (and was one before) a threat to our nations safety with their impressment of American sailors. We lost 9,000 sailors to the British just through impressment alone, which is 6% of their navy fighting on the opposite side. In addition to this is that England wouldn’t set out their entire fleet of ships for a battle, they would only send out a small detachment. If it came to the point where the enemy is taking action and using force like the British did with impressing our soldiers, you would have a good reason to fight back. Your rights of a United States citizen and your honor of being one would immediately be stripped and you would again be put into the same position that caused the revolution in the first place. The only legitimate chance we have to defend our country, as well as our honor and rights, is to take immediate action and go to war with Britain.
If I were someone who had argumentative skills that could get President Madison to be swayed, I would sway President Madison to go through with Option 2 or a limited naval war.
President Madison, you have four options that all have consequences. But the most reasonable and honestly smartest move, in my opinion, is to have a strict, limited naval war. Here are the reasons why. Firstly, by doing this, we aren’t risking our nation’s unity nor are we risking going into huge debt like what a ground or land war would lead to. Secondly, we are protecting our citizens from disunity because if we were to have an all out war with Britain, then we’ll have to spend more costly funds for our defenses meaning more tariffs and taxes would have to be established to pay for all of this. Tariffs and taxes have led to problems like Shay’s Rebellion and thoughts about secession. Thirdly, the little debt that may come from the limited maritime war, we can easily pay it off. We have had great leaders in the past that have solved our debt problem, for example, Andrew Jackson. Fourthly, our diverse population will be safer because their homes and lives have less chances of being destroyed. Fifthly, this is the logical and steadfast move since Britain is already in war with the French and it would be harder for Britain to take on two large unions. We have to act fast because if we continue letting the British seize our people and take away our rights to trade with other countries, they will continue taking advantage of us. Using force will be the only way to get the British to concede, and we know this through experience, or more specifically the Revolutionary War. Unlike the other options that speak of peace, if we take on this approach, not only does it show our ability to take action and fight for our rights, we show we are willing to win or lose with pride. We are a nation that has once fought for our independence and rights, now it is our turn to protect and maintain them. Avoiding costly funds, disunity, and to still fight for our rights as citizens that were guaranteed by the Constitution we must go with strictly limited naval war. Given all the reasons, go with Option 2 President Madison. Make this war a successful and memorable one.
The actions that the British have taken against us are absolutely unforgivable. The restriction of our trade, the impressment of our sailors, and their violation of the treaty by placing troops in forts along our western border are all attacks against our nations honor and wellbeing. However, I’m sad to mention that as we currently stand, we are sorely outnumbered and outmatched by the Brits’ military might. That is why I propose to bide our time and prepare for war with Britain. An invasion of the British Isles is foolhardy, but Canada is well within our reach. The war would be a show of strength, not only to Britain but all of Europe. It would also have the added bonus of additional land and a morale boost.
This being said, preparations are going to be the deciding factor in this war. The absolute worst thing our nation can do in response to the British injustices is to lose a war instigated by ourselves. A failed invasion of Canada will result in a sharp hit to our economy, as well as put us in a worse position in negotiations with the British. It would also leave our nation’s morale dreadfully low, and lower the populace’s faith in our government.
To make sure that this worst case scenario, preparations must be done. To this end I propose that we focus on building our navy and the creation of a national army. With our current funds, this would be impossible, so I also suggest the renewal of the national bank, at least for as long as the preparations and war persist. These three points will surely affect the outcome of our war.
Others may say that we do not have enough time to prepare, and that preparations will not make a difference. This argument could only be maintained if the British themselves were preparing for a war against us as well. However, the British are currently combating Napoleon back in Europe. This moment is the perfect time to reorganize ourselves for the war we are planning. I strongly believe that we must have our revenge, but honor lost cannot be regained by a lost battle, we must prepare and win the battle if we are to regain that lost honor.
New England, 1812. American sailors are being impressed in unforeseen amounts, and the nation’s trade market is being strangled. The seizure, robbery, and destruction of merchant ships is taking a toll on the economy as brave leaders in Washington are being put on the front spotlight and a solution is expected by the worried American people. It seems as if the fate of the world is at stake, when in fact it is to these people. Their lives are extremely dependent on this trade, as is the American economy as whole. Unfortunately, our leaders are asking themselves this very question too. Is unlimited war necessary? Is risking the entire nation’s safety and defense forces needed? Or, is war itself needed? What if… just peace will resolve this?
I’ve pros and cons are weighed against each other. If America chooses all-out war, it is possibly risking its own existence as a whole. Its economy, its leftover funds, and its peoples’ safety are in jeopardy. Alright, Plan B it is, to defend itself in limited maritime war. These impressments and attacks on innocents are completely inhumane and unjustified, a response is required! Peace only shows weakness, and the young nation needs to stake a spot in the high-chair and teach the world it’s time to play ball. A big land war only appears to greatly risk the nation’s safety and borders; the Western and Northern frontiers are already facing enough problems with Native Americans. In Option 2, there are still major consequences to a war, no matter the size. The country is weak economically, and the government is still in major war debts. The British navy holds a jaw-dropping 800 ships, even when fighting Napoleon. The British Navy is the best at what it does, and no other force comes close to its level of skill and size, let alone the weak and laughably small, disorganized American Navy.
This brings us to option 3- to delay an armed conflict until prepared and then fight for our honor and rights as a nation through a well-funded professional war. The trade and expanse of economy of the United States of America is crucial and extremely fundamental to our young nation and its future. Our Western and Northern borders are being constantly attacked by Indians. The British army is only getting stronger and our embargos and peace offers are only being harshly rejected by the tea-sipping monarchists. There is a need to protect our soldiers and sea-farers as well, not just our trade business. Unfortunately, none of our defense forces are prepared to take on the global superpowers, let alone the two greatest Britain and France. Our navy and military are extremely un-prepared and we only have a 12-16 ship navy, next to Britain’s tall and big army. All of our defense forces are small, puny untrained and under-funded militias. This nation is clearly not ready for war.
Thus, a waiting time is necessary. It is unapparent how long this must be, but time to breath is needed. Our government is poor, its military ready to be grown. This great land only needs time and we will eventually be able to fight and successfully defeat the enraging Western Europeans. Skill and size is soluble, as it is fundable. The USA is not prepared to take on the major consequences of peace or full-on war.
If I could pursue Madison in how to handle the war of 1812 I would tell him to pick option 4 no war at all. I believe that it is the best choice for our country. First off we just got out of a huge war against Britain in becoming our own country. Siding with Britain would show them that we almost relay on them and need them. Also they would try in returning our country into a dependent nation under their rule. In addition siding with France we would be helping out a tyrant and the whole purpose of become an independent nation was to get away from a tyrant, it would look very hypocritical on our part. France has been attacking most of our ships so why would we help out someone out who has just caused issues for us. It would show France that in the future they could walk all over us and we wouldn’t do anything but help them in return. Lastly for our country it would have a huge toll. We already had to raise taxes on the people and that caused many issues. To raise the taxes again would cause more revolts and more angry people and right now our country just needs to work together. I don’t think that our country should get involved in another war that is why option 4 is the best choice when dealing with the war of 1812.
Although each option has it’s own benefits, and some with a plethora of cons, the most rational option would most likely be option two. Through strictly limited war on the high seas we can avoid any and all possible civilian casualties and risk a miniscule amount of soldier’s lives. The naval ships would only employ a fraction of the soldiers needed to implement a total ground war. Everyone always falls back on the argument of the 16:800 navy argument. But the entirety of the truth is not represented that little snippet of factual information. The main force of the mighty British Navy is currently preoccupied with the French Emperor Napoleon. The real ratio of ships would end up 16 to around 20-30 on the British side. Not to mention that since the North American exploits of the British were not the main concern, the British employed the more rundown ships that used less accurate guns. And in the case of firepower, the British used inferior weaponry while stocking these “Naval warships”. The average gun on the British ships near America shot 18 pound carronades,( a type of cannon that used 18 pound projectiles) while the American ships would be stocked with 32 pound carronades. The 32 pound projectile could prove to be much more devastating to a ship’s hull causing an early surrender on the so called “invincible” British Navy. In accordance to the fact that they would be outgunned, They could not patch up a warship after it has retreated. Having the closer to home advantage means that we would be able send the damaged ships to a dock or harbor where it can be fixed and re-armored and sent back to the maritime war in a matter of days or week whereas the British would never be able to enjoy a pleasure of that sort as it would take months to get back to British waters and repair damages that would most likely not survive the elongated journey all the way back home.
My advice would be to go with option number 4, to keep peace. Britain’s navy outnumbers us completely, and we do not have enough naval force to even attempt to attack the British. If we did go to war over the seas with them, we would be destroyed very quickly and wouldn’t stand a chance. If we did go to war with them, we would need to use all of the few ships we have. We would most likely lose all of our ships rendering us helpless against any attacks from any other countries. If we lost the war, Britain would most likely want to rule over us again, which would be very bad because of all the effort we put into gaining our independence. In order to build up a navy necessary to even compete with Britain, we would need lots of money. The only way to get this money would be to tax the people of America even more than they are now. By taxing them, we would stir up even more anger within America itself. We just fought a war to gain our independence from Britain and a monarchy. By attacking Britain, we would be helping the French out and in turn helping out a monarchy. Why would we want to be associated with another monarch? The people of America that would want us to go to war are mostly the wealthy who have the money to spend on the war efforts. They will not be the ones fighting in the war, and possible risking their lives while doing so. The number of bad things that would come out of the war with Britain greatly outnumbers the amount of good things that could happen if we did fight them. We need to stay at peace to protect our young and vulnerable nation from destruction.
America is on the brink of war with one of the most powerful country’s this world has ever seen. Why risk the liberty and prosperity of this great nation because of small discrepancies with a single country. Therefore, in my opinion option four is the most logical response to this conflict. Firstly, Great Britain has undoubtedly the most powerful navy in the world with an armada of over one thousand ships, our sixteen ships would be a laughing stock compared to Great Britain. Not only the navy but also their army is ridiculously larger and made up of well trained fighting-machines hardened by the Napoleonic wars. The army that the U.S. has, is made mostly of incompetent, drunken, state militia’s who have proven themselves in the past to be very unreliable. Furthermore, if we were to declare war with Great Britain we would be allying ourselves with the tyrant Napoleon. If the United States is founded on liberty, and democracy then how can it be constitutional to be allied with a nation lead by an emperor? Lastly if we did decide to go into a war with the British, we would be doing so with no national bank to support us. America is a baby country as of right now, with an economy without a vital backbone. Also, even if we did win this war where we are outgunned and outmanned our economy could collapse and this great nation will come crumbling down. In conclusion, we should avoid war with Britain at all costs because we don’t have as many weapons. Our sixteen ships we do have are fighting in a war with pirates. Our army consists of ill-equipped men with less tactics than the British, our allies would be a country lead by a tyrant, and this war won’t be supported by a national bank.
In my opinion, America shouldn’t go to to war with Britain at this time. We are not prepared as a nation, so we don’t stand a chance at an all out war. If we spend time to build up our army as well as our miniscule navy, we will have significantly higher chances of a positive outcome as a nation, rather than a pointless war with no winner. We, as a nation, have every right to fight against Britain for our rights. They have spent years impressing our soldiers, cutting off our trade, as well as supplying indians with weaponry to use against us, but we aren’t ready for another all out or naval war. Because we are unprepared for another war, we risk losing land that we have been fighting so hard to get and we risk the safety of our towns, especially our coastal towns. Britain is too distracted by their war with France to notice that we could be potentially preparing for war, and even if they do, we are hardly a threat to them, as we are a sea away from them and have such a miniscule ratio to her experienced army and monstrous navy. If we go to war and don’t lose all of our land, there is a high chance that our economy will be much worse. We don’t have the money for a war yet, and the only way we could get this money is to raise taxes on the population. This war is not a good idea at this present time. We should take the time to plan out what we are going to do and how we are going to get it done.
War, of any kind, would be a horrible move for our developing nation. We have no money to even spend on getting involved. In fact, we are already on the verge of a depression as a result of the other countries battling in the war. This war has us nearly bankrupt and we aren’t even partaking in it! Not only are we economically poor, but we are poor in a sense unity as well. The war is yet another point of division within the US. Embarking in war would further divide our already disagreeing country. The north is fully against war and would do all in their power to not only oppose the war, but also sabotage it. Our young nation does not need yet another reason to question its unity. Even if we had the nationalism and funding, we wouldn’t have the resources. Our pathetic “army” is a pack of ragtag, drunken state militia. The risk of putting our army up that against one of the world’s military super powers (that is already waging in and ready for war) is way too high. If we lose, it could further jeopardize or totally eliminate our rights. Putting our navy against theirs is also a horrible idea. Britain has the strongest naval force in the world. We have 12 ships. We cannot afford to lose any war right now (naval or otherwise). Frankly, we can’t even afford to win a war (considering the fact we don’t have the money to fund it in the first place). The only way to ensure our safety as a nation and to prevent further economical and national damage is to not enter war at all. The only way to prevent a loss for sure is to prevent war.
My advice to President James Madison would be to choose option three and hold off on war until we, America, are completed prepared. Delaying war would be most beneficial to us because our army and navy would be able to develop and we wouldn’t go to battle completely unprepared. Going to battle now would mean having to gather up our state militias which are very small and weak and put them up against the biggest, strongest army in the world. Also, most of our soldiers were just put on the frontier and it would be foolish to take them away after just deploying them. Waiting for war and building up our army can help because instead of having multiple state militias who are not used to fighting with each other and unorganized would not stand a chance against the British army. Regarding our navy, I think it would be idiotic to send our 12-ship navy in opposition to the British 800-ship navy. We need to delay this war to at least get 30-40 ships because a lot of the British navy is held up with their war against France and if we can just have 30 ships we can hold up against the British ships traveling all the way across the Atlantic to our land. Another factor that could help us with this war would be extending the embargo. Although this might sound like a bad idea for our economy in the short run, it could be a vital part of winning this war and keeping the United States the United States. Keeping the embargo would keep all British ships out of our country and would help our weak navy and help build that up. Overall, I think you can agree that delaying war would be most beneficial for our country and is the only way we should approach this controversy.
Delaying conflict with Britain is the only course of action which will lead to a positive outcome for ‘Merica. The British war machine possess an army that is magnitudes stronger than the army and militias of ‘Merica. Even with the majority of the British naval forces committed to fighting Napoleon, at least 56 ships would have been able to ravage and pillage the ‘Merican coastline. The 12 ship navy of ‘Merica would have been quickly routed in any conflict by the superior British navy. Some supporters of maritime war claim that the navy would have been strong enough had merchants’ and privateers’ ships armed. This theory is weak due to two things; the embargo and the logistics of arming the ships. The embargo left existing ships to rot and decay in ports, leaving many ships in dire need of repair. Secondly, the money, resources, and time necessary to upgrade existing ships would not have been able to occur with any haste.
If the embargo was left in effect while the ‘Mericans prolonged military action, Britain and France would have felt the economic pains from losing ‘Merica as a trading partner. The time spent prolonging attack could also be used to prepare the ‘Merican economy and army for the rigors of war. At the time, the ‘Merican government lacked the money or credit to fund improvements and the costs of a long war [QUOTE}. Additionally, the defense of ‘Merica was largely done by untrained and weak militia. The undisciplined ‘Merican troops would be no match for the highly trained and well lead British forces. Finally, if war is delayed peace might be able to prevail. Britain and ‘Merica might have been able to strike a deal had Britain realized the needless loss of life that would occur in a large war over petty conflicts.
If I were to have to make a decision the way President Madison did I would choose option four. Our country is still much too weak to engage in a war with any country right now, let alone Britain. The consequences of losing this war are also too high; Britain has outwardly shown an interest in returning America to the colonial way it once was. If we are not victorious in the war that could be a possibility. Also, Great Britain has one of the strongest navies in the world a fight at sea wouldn’t even be a fight it would be a slaughtering of Americans and an easy victory for the British. On top of that the taxes necessary to sustain this war would be astonishingly high. Every tax leading up to this point would seem meager and almost insignificant compared to the taxes American citizens would get bombarded with if war was declared. Also, if we choose to declare on Britain we would be choosing to align ourselves with the French. Not only are the French being ruled by a tyrant dictator right now. The French have also seized more of our ships in the past five years than Britain has. If we choose to attack the British and therefore align with the French we would be supporting tyranny abroad even though we just fought a war for our countries freedoms from a tyrant. Also, the war is unconstitutional! I do not believe it is worth putting the future of one of the largest and strongest constitutional republics in the world in jeopardy, because of the honor of a few people.
In my opinion, Option 4 is the best for this country. The United DStates of America is new country, with a promising future. We can’t let our anger get the best of upright now. Don’t misunderstand, I am extrememly angered by what the British have done. They deserve to be punished for not only disrupting the flow our our trade, but also taking our sailors. I completely agree with our American citizens on this, but I’d rather this than the British come over and slaughter them all. I’m looking out for the well-being of the America and it’s people. Also, Great Britain has the largest (and therefore strongest) naval army in the world. They rule the Atlantic, so if we were to engage in an only naval war, we would surely be defeated. They’d crush us just as hard on land too. Since Great Britian has been around longer, naturally they’re stronger than us. They’ve had more time to develop their army. Plus, their army isn’t made of average men looking to tipsily fight for their rights, with a gun in one hand and a beer in the other. These are dedicated, trained, British men who have real war experience. If we engaged in war, they would win. Pushing the war off a couple months wouldn’t do us any good either. A few months wouldn’t do anything for our soldiers. Great Britain is currently in a war with France. This plus other wars show how many years and years of war experience they’ve had. We can’t just catch up in a couple months. If we push the war back, we’re just pushing back our country’s defeat. Bottom line is, peace is the only safe option for us. We must put aside our emotions and look at the situation from a realistic standpoint. Do we really want to put our country’s future at risk when we have so much potential? No, we don’t. Peace will lead to our country’s survival, which will allow us to thrive.
The advice that I would give to President Madison regarding the option of war with Britain in the summer of 1812 is option 3, which is to wait for war until we are ready. I say this because we have a huge lack of army and navy, fewer troops and ships, no supplies, manpower, and funds. If we went into war, we would go into huge debt, because we have no national bank and have major economic issues. We also have no weapons, and would have to start producing our own, which we do not have the time or the money to do so. How we had weapons and gunpowder during the American Revolution, was by the French giving them to us. We are not able to do that now because we are not in alliance with the French anymore. The United States is also a new country, and we need time to grow on our own. We could not go into maritime war because we have 16 ships, compared to the 800 ships the British have. That is 1 to every 50 ships, we would become creamed by them in naval war. Also, we have such a small navy to fight, and the weather is supposed to be bad in November, and that is bad for maritime war. The British also have major advantages over us. Such as, they just fought a long war with France, and now have become more experienced in war, and have become strengthened. They also have 200,000 troops compared to our 7,000 troops. In regards to helping the US, the embargo act would give us extra time to prepare for war, and let us save up more money to fight in war. That is why I believe that option 3, waiting for war until we are ready, is the best option in regards to the option of war in 1812.
If I was one of James Madison’s advisors on the War of 1812, I would choose full out war. I would choose option one because even though there would be many setbacks, such as no budget and weaker military, it would be worth it because we would be protecting our rights. Also, if we waited to train our soldiers, the British will continue to treat us like the colonies that they once ruled. Britain continues to trespass on our soil even though we beat them in our Revolutionary War. War with the British could help our economy grow by letting local factories produce the goods we once got from the British and other countries that we once traded with. Another reason that we should go to war with is that they have impressed over 9,000 of our seamen. This means that many of our men are over there being forced to fight for the enemy, if we don’t stick up for them, how are we any better than the British?
If we took the war to the seas then it would end up losing by a landslide. The British outnumber our ships 50 to 1, this would end up killing more than a full on war. On the land we could also end up with more land for our country that continues to grow. Also, we have to take the war to the West to battle the Indians who are being supplied by the British. Even if we tried to cut of the supplies from the British by naval war, the British’s 50 ships could definitely get passed our one to supply their alliance. These are just a few of the many reasons that I would choose option one, going to war with the British.
If I were to advise President Madison on which option to choose between the four, I would advise him to choose option four. Option one and two are saying that we should go to war, except two is suggesting naval war. I feel this is a bad idea because Britain has one of the strongest navy’s. Plus we would not be able to take any loans from the bank for a war because Mr. President didn’t renew the federal bank. Option three says that we should wait until we are ready for war. This isn’t an option because by the time we are prepared for a war, the war would be over by then. It would take us ages to be ready and prepped for war. We also would risk losing men and money. We stand no chance against Britain or France. The last time we defeated Britain we had help from France, this time we would have to choose between the two. And even if we did go to war, why would we help France when the French took more of our merchants than Britain? The common folk do not like tariffs and if we go to war, we will be taxed greatly to support the war plus going to war with either France or Britain threatens our freedom, property, Republic and honor. Do we want to risk that all for a war that wouldn’t benefit us in anyway? That’s why I think the safest option for President Madison would be to not to go to war, option four.
President Madison needs to strongly consider the argument in which we have a full scale attack on Canada. Not only do the British impress our sailors they are forcing them to join the navy and fight against their own country. More than ten thousand seamen have already been impressed and that’s just from 1802-1812. Britain also imposed a blockade if we want to trade with France. We first have to stop at a British port and pay for good heading to France. The incident with the Chesapeake only 10 miles off our own coast is too big to overlook. The time to act is now; Britain is tied up with France and is distracted. I know that the numbers are not very favorable in this war but they were not favorable in the revolutionary war either. We know that we can beat these guys we can do it again. I know we do not have the same support from France but they are still distracting Britain and we won’t have to deal with their full force. I heard some other group’s state that if we attack in Canada we won’t know terrain but neither will the British troops that come over from Great Britain. I believe we have superior military minds and this can give us many advantages. If we attack using only our navy what’s the point of that, 16 against 800, we should save them and coordinate them with our armed attacks so the battle can be on two fronts giving us even more of an advantage. The more and seamen that are impressed the weaker our trade is and the more afraid that other countries are to trade with us. The time is now attack!
In my opinion for President Madison he should chose option 2, all out maritime war. This is because given the circumstance of our country we most likely wouldn’t able to afford a ground war economically and not to mention all of the military and civilian casualties that would cost us. A ground war would mean that not only would our military and navy be extremely spread out, it would also mean we would HAVE to implement a draft into the military weakening our economic stability by taking people away from their jobs. According to option four (peace), we shouldn’t even bother with the British while they oppress our sailors over seas which is clearly acts of war. Imprisonment apparently is fine as long as it doesn’t affect the people making the decision, YET! Its only a matter of time before the British that we won’t fight them and in this situation peace would mean that all that we fought for in the revolutionary war would be all for not just because we didn’t want to fight for whatever reason. In option 3, it states that we should wait and prep before any military action, although this isn’t an unreasonable decision, the US merchant ships are vast and we could easily, cheaply and quickly create a navy (that which wouldn’t need a military draft) armed to the teeth and ready to defend our liberty. Although some would say we are out matched by the British, I say we use that against them and arm our merchant ships as soon as possible. Not only would maritime war prevent civilian casualties it would also hurt Britain economically. This because if we attack Britain via sea we eliminate majority of their major trade routes into and out of the country weakening Britain from the inside.
If I were in President Madison’s cabinet and needed to help him figure out what to do with regards to the War of 1812, I would advise he go with option 3. It is clear the United States is not ready for war yet but we still must defend our rights. America must show the world that it is a force to be reckoned with, just not at the moment. We need to become financially stable and strengthen and organize our military before we can go into war again. Also, Britain is impressing our sailors and we must stand up to them. The problem is that we can’t afford to lose, for if we do we might not only lose the war but our independence. Freedom is something that must be cherished not wasted. With an army and navy so weak against the British, one of the most powerful countries in the word with the world’s best military, loss is almost inevitable if we become involved now. Once we are ready and strong, victory will show everyone that America is not the abandoned child of Britain but a strong, independent, FREE country of its own. Catching England off guard could be our best option victory and the best way to do that is to wait. America must tend to its own problems, which we have too many of, instead of fighting a war an ocean away. Finally, the US must repair the economy so we have something financially to rely on when war does come. In conclusion, waiting until properly prepared then going to war is America’s best option for the War of 1812.
Provided that I had Madison’s ear, figuratively not literally, I would advise him to pick option four, peace. The United States was still in its infancy as a nation, it had only been about thirty six years since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The nation was unstable on both a national and international level. There were tensions between the northern and southern states and any controversial issue was almost guaranteed to become a stalemate in the Senate. If they nation cannot come together in a time of peace than there is no guarantee that they can band together in a time of war. The nation’s economy was also suffering. Their debts to the French from the Revolutionary War were only erased in 1795, and even then the government still owed money to numerous private investors, both American and British. If the United States were to go to war now the economy would undoubtedly be ruined beyond repair, and when a nation’s economy falls, the nation is not soon after.
The United States army and navy were miniscule in comparison to the European military powerhouses of the day. Even with the majority of the British fleet doing battle with the French, the remaining available ships were about five times as many as the United States had in total. The young nation’s navy could never have survived a battle with those odds. The army was still a long ways from being battle ready at a moment’s notice. The troops were disorganized and lacked a truly brilliant leader, such as George Washington, to guide them through the difficult times that would surely come if America went to war.
The war could also be destructive to America’s image in the eyes of foreign countries. If it sided with the French, who had seized the most American vessels and impressed the most American sailors out of anyone on the planet, it would appear as though the U.S. was willing to conform and submit to the will of France. This is not the image that the U.S. wanted to send to the world; it wanted to send the message that America was a free and independent nation that would not fight with tyrants or emperors. It is because of this that the U.S. must take a break to focus on its internal problems and leave the rest of the world’s nations to their bickering. America must be the light that guides the world to democracy and equality, and in order to do this it must remain peaceful in a world filled with war. America’s peace will be the world’s salvation.
If I were a member of President James Monroe’s cabinet, and he asked me for advice on how to go about dealing with Britain, I would tell him to take option 3. Option 3 states that we should delay war with Britain until it is absolutely necessary. This is the only logical compromise on how to win the war because there is no way we could engage in a naval war at this time, let alone an unlimited war, based solely on the fact that we only have 12 ships and Britain has over 800. At this point, the United States is way too weak to go into any sort of battle. On the other hand, it is also illogical to make peace with the British. We have done so much to protect our rights over the past few decades, so why should we throw it all out the window now? We don’t have the strength to go into war, and we can’t just let all of our hard work go to waste. This option will give us time to build up our forces and train an army that is not just made of militia. It will give us a greater chance at winning and finding justice for our country. Also, Britain is engaged in the war with France, and we could probably defeat them in a surprise attack. By only engaging in war if we absolutely have to, we can almost guarantee a positive outcome in the War of 1812.
If I were able to advise President Madison on how to deal with the British, I would suggest option three, waiting until we are ready for war. To me it seems like the only viable solution at this point. Any type of war at this time would be asking to get crushed by the much more powerful British army and navy. Our army, if you could even call it that, was already spread so thin fighting battles at home against the upstart Natives. Not only that, but we only had seven thousand regulars to begin with. The British have over two hundred thousand. Then there is the point of the navy. As of right now, we have sixteen serviceable ships for battle. Britain has eight hundred. That is asking to fight a loosing battle. That also does not even bring up the issue of funding. President Madison repealed the national bank last year in 1811, leaving us completely unable to pay for any of the necessities for war. People might say that we could just produce what is necessary, but they forget, our economy is based around agriculture. We cannot produce the goods in such a large quantity to compete. Now granted, something does need to be done about Britain and France attacking our ships and impressing our sailors. We cannot allow those European powers to see us as a nation that will be easily pushed over. But at this time, we are grossly underprepared to do anything about it. If we can focus on building up our military and economic worth, then war is plausible. At this point, however, war would not be a success.
If I had Madisons ear I would tell him to wait until we are stronger and more prepared. It would be ignorant to go into war with Britain now because we are incredibly ill prepared in both our military and navy. For Example, Britain’s navy has 800 ships to our 12 if we waited we could build our navy and have a much greater chance of beating them. In addition, Britain’s military is well trained and ready for battle. Meanwhile, our military is made of ill prepared town militias that would not stand a chance against Britain. On another note, we could use the embargo to our advantage, it would help us gain more time to build our military and navy without being harmed by Britain. Furthermore, we cannot risk everything we have gained as a country, today we are a united country, going into war with Britain now could destroy everything we have worked for. Going into war with Britain is unstoppabale at this point but it can be delayed. Britain has impressed many of our soldiers, therefore threatening our country. We cannot let them get away with this, so we must teach them a lesson and the only way this can be done is if we fight back and win. In order to win we must be prepared and once we are we can finally stand our ground. On another note, going into all out war right now would only succeed in killing most of our military. In addition, maritime war would only result in an instant loss of our ships because their navy is extremely stronger than ours. Next, not going to war would just lead to Britain attacking us on our land. Therefore, It would be wise to take time to prepare our navy and military and then attack Britain so we can win and show them that we are a force to be reckoned with.
If I was an adviser to James Madison, I would suggest Option 2- Limited Maritime War. This would be the most sensible option for a country wanting war but is not prepared for total and unlimited warfare. The main problem we have with Britain is their impressments of our very own American sailors, so we should take the fight to where the problem is, the sea. While we don’t have a large navy ready to go to war, Britain’s navy is also weakened by the war with Napoleon. That leaves at the most 56 British ships to fight instead of the full British naval force, estimated at over 800 ships. Not to mention that many ships had problems with filling their crew, which the British still, managed to do at the expense of loyalty and passion. But if we are going to build up our navy, why not build up our army as well? Jefferson’s Embargo Act and the expiration of the national bank have left the United States in a very bad economic situation. It would be more rational to build up one of the two, and of those, navy is the most practical. We do not possess the skill or population to fight Canada, and if we choose to invade, many lives will be lost. Why would anyone sacrifice a regiment of 10,000, when a couple dozen ships containing crews of about 30-40 men each can hold their own against any offensive attempt by the Canadians? To invade the U.S. from Canada, an army would need to cross over either The Great Lakes or The St. Lawrence River. However, they would not be able to do so if we strategically anchor ships every few miles along these bodies of water. Defending the rights and honor of America, limited maritime warfare is the best option, being the compromise of a senseless and unsuccessful bloodbath and a weak-spirited declaration of neutrality.
Blog #66– War of 1812 Debate
Without a doubt, my advice to President Madison would be to go with option 3, wait until we are ready to declare war. At this time, America was unprepared to fight against the British, who were currently fighting against the French. The war between France and England would also enable the English soldiers to come over and fight America when war was declared; they were prepared to fight, but we were not. The U.S. pushed drunken militiamen into these wars against skillful British soldiers, but they had little to no training. It would practically be a suicide mission to send them against the British. If we wait to declare war against England we would be able to train these men better so they can be skilled, and not go onto the battlefield, wide eyed and unprepared. Were we going to use our naval forces too? I sure hope not. The British had the largest, most powerful navy with roughly 800 ships while America had a measly 16 ships to fight with. Plus, our sailors were being impressed left and right, so we did not have a lot of men to fight on those ships. Also, America was up to its’ knees in debt, so how could they possibly fund this war? More taxes? The fun would be managing the ensuing rebellions, and fighting the British at the same time. Now, I am not saying this war should not happen, I just think we should wait until we are properly prepared. America has been harassed by England ever since colonization, and it is time to put a foot down and fight for our rights. If war is not eventually declared by America at some point, England could rally up its troops and come barging into our nation and take over, just like America did with the Indians. Now I’m not saying there would not be more shenanigans from the Brits, but if we wait for the right time to declare war, we might be able to win against them and let them know we are not a force to be reckoned with.
My advice to President Monroe would be to go to war with what you have now (option 1). I know we weren’t as strong in numbers or as skilled as their army or navy but they were distracted in many ways at that time. They wouldn’t be able to use their entire navy or army against us because they are at war with France right now. They have the largest and strongest navy in the world at that time but they wouldn’t send every single ship into war. Also in this time period the Industrial revolution is in full swing in Britain. The industrial revolution brought disease that rampaged throughout the country decimating the population. The industrial Revolution also put the country in an economic depression. British citizens at this time were mad at their country as well. While we are at war with Britain, back in America we could be making use of all the resources we have here like trees for boats and iron for weapons. This would help fill the economic gap by creating jobs and helping America get out of debt quicker. All these factors being in effect now has to be a sign that this would be the best time to fight Britain, and that’s why I believe Monroe should use option 1, absolute war right now.
Out of the four ways to go, my advice for President Madison would be to go with the fourth option – no war. Any way that we try, we will be destroyed. We cannot go through the water that the British practically owns with such small number of ships that we have. If we go against the British with a naval attack, there is absolutely no chance for us because they have the largest naval force out there. Also, where would the constitution be in any of this if we were to go to war. The British did nothing to provoke us into starting a war with them, therefore it would be unconstitutional and after all we did to get it in act, what would be the point of throwing it all away. We cannot go to war with the British. If we do, we will be showing our support to the French, who have seized more of our ships than the British have. If there was the slightest chance that we did go to war, we have no money. We would have to pay for this war somehow. The government would have to raise taxes and tariffs higher than they already are. If you are advocating for the war, you most likely don’t have to pay for or won’t be affected by it. The United States needs to stay out of this war for the good of the country. Everything that we have worked up to will be gone and we can’t risk that.
I would tell Madison to postpone war (option 3). No nation should have to stand impressment; however, with the stature of the army and navy, or lack thereof, the nation was horrendously unprepared for war. The best course of action at that time would have been to postpone war until we were certain that our military was great enough to sustain one of the most experienced and strong armies and navies in the world. The British soldiers had been fighting France for ten years, and had gained experience in battles such as the battle of Trafalgar. Our nation was still in its infancy. Our troops were not yet experienced in battle. We had no able leaders, as most men were either too old or inexperienced. Our army had fewer than 7,000 troops, many of which were on the frontier fighting Indian attacks funded by the British. The New England states refused to send their militias to attack, and chose to hold them until necessary to resist an invasion. Our entire navy was composed of a measly 16 vessels. The British had the strongest navy in the world. Without a national bank, we would have had no way to pay for the war. I would tell Madison that America needed to prove itself, but declaring war at the time would almost surely result in a defeat, and risk the newfound rights and freedoms of the nation. The embargo would safely put war on hold and possibly hurt other countries enough to give the U.S. and advantage. In short, I would tell Madison that the U.S. should attack, but not until it is ready.
My advice to President Madison is to go with option 3, waiting until we are prepared for war. We definitely need to fight the British for our rights, but we have no money or a stable army to fight with. The amount of debt we would go into fighting a war is extreme, and our army is just not ready. We can’t fight with maritime war because Great Britain has one of the best navies in the world, and the ratio of US to GB ships is 16:800. We have NO chance of winning naval battle with that difference. We know from our past, that just talking it out with Britain doesn’t give us aha we want, like in revolutionary war time. We have to fight to get what we want, but we are just not prepared. The current condition of America is tolerable enough that we have time to build up our economy and military. It is clear we need to fight for our rights, but for now we need to worry about strengthening our new, fragile country first
If I were in the position of President Madison I would choose option three and wait to declare war with Britain. Waiting to go to into battle with the strongest Navy in the world works out in multiple ways, including our very poor economic status. Madison being a huge Republican, he decided to get rid of the Federal Bank. Getting rid of the Federal Bank defeats a large pool of money to take from to pay off the costs from the war. If we were to go into war immediately we would be in huge debt because of no National bank. If we were to wait for a longer period time and keep the non-intercourse act in affect we could keep our economy thriving while potentially crippling the economy of France and Britain. Another key point for waiting to declare war is how our current soldiers are fighting on the western frontier against Indians who are being funded by the British. Fighting the War of Tippecanoe which is cutting off the trade between Britain and the indians and, establishing a definite western border. If we were to go to war right now, we would have to move all of our soldiers from the Western Frontier to the Eastern Coast to protect future British naval attacks. This would be a pointless descion to move all of our troops because then the Indians would move more eastern and invade more states while the British would be coming in from the Atlantic Ocean destroying our highly populated cities on the eastern coast. Going into ultimate war right now is pointless because of our lack of soldiers, commanding officers, and supplies. Most of our soldiers are linked with state militias who are very weak and aren’t being paid for their work, we have little commanders to actually establish leadership, and in this war we would not have any support from France which, in the Revolutionary War provided us with around 90% of our gun powder and provided us with a large amount of military help. Although going into Maritime War is the most pointless idea because of the main idea that Britain has the strongest military in the world. The British had around 800 battle ships compared to our weak 16 ships, creating a ratio of about 50 British ships to every American 1. Waiting to declare war is the best option because of the current occupation of our soldiers and our current economic state.
If I were a part of President Madison’s cabinet I would suggest limited Maritime Warfare. I believe that we have gotten ourselves into a position where we can not back out. We have gone in too far and reached the point of no return. However, we don’t want to just jump into a full out war because of it. We do not have the military abundance or training to succeed. We just completed our revolution and we just got the British off of our soil. Why would we even consider letting any of them put one foot on this land. We finally got rid of the last of them. This would only be taking steps backwards. The reason I feel we should go to fight in the seas is because it is doing something that won’t hurt us, which is better then nothing. Although their ship abundance out number us, they are not going to send all eight hundred ships to harm us. A majority of theirs are occupied fighting France. Waiting too long to do something could give the British time to strategize. They could also come over to our land when we are not prepared and take us for all we have. They could destroy the entire country while we are building up strength. We would never be able to take action in what we spent so much time preparing for. Peace is a very nice dream, but it is no reality. We want something. They want something. In the end, someone is going to fight to get what they want. As far in as we have gotten with this argument, we just don’t have the stability to lay off. Taking this battle to the seas ensures safety of every American on the continent. Being out in the middle of the ocean is not going to hurt the Virginia farmer. Also, nothing will be destroyed. Everything in America is still new, the towns, buildings, and homes are newly built. A war on the ocean won’t bring harm to any of it. Less people are required to fight on the ships. This means no draft. If we take all of our best, most trained navy troops and put them on these sixteen boats we can stand a chance. Also, What ever happened to Patriotism? People love this country. The reason we won the revolutionary war was because the people fighting on our side wanted it more then anything in the world. When people have a cause that they feel is worth dying for, like the rights and individual freedoms that America gives them and their families, they will do whatever is in their power to protect that. The people who want it will sign up for the navy. They will train and fight hard because it is what they believe in, not just what they are being paid for and told to do. The only logical way to protect our “child” of a country from harm and not back out of what we have already dug ourselves into is to go and fight on the seas.
If I was to give President Madison advice it would be to forget going to war with Britian, once again, and focus on trying to improve things domestically within the country. As pointed out by all but group two, the British has a naval army that is astronomically larger than ours. If we where to go to war, we would want to win, not become total embarrassments. Now some will say, “But wait we fought the British for our freedom, and won that with out good odds”. But what they forget is, during the Revolution most of our supplies used to win the war came France, an allie we wouldn’t have this time. Also during the Revolution, we had a cause that was more worth the fight. The Revolution was a cause that directly effected everyone in the colonies, and now it’s a cause only directly effecting merchants and the government, not the “common man”, so the “common man” is not going to be motivated to give up the life of freedom for something that doesn’t benefit them. We still have debt from the previous wars, so where are we going to get the money to pay for supplies from? That’s right, we would have to raise taxes, and if we did that, a war with Britain would be the least of our worries. Instead of having to prove our independence to the rest of the world, we should be proving that we can prosper as a nation that doesn’t need an empire to look after us. We should focus and establish a strong economic system, job market and public transportation system before we go and solve international conflicts, even though nationally we are still a mess.
If I were in the cabinet I would pursue President James Madison to choose option 2, strictly limited naval war. The Unites States could avoid the destructive effects of ground war. Not only will there be less casualties there won’t be as much devastation that ground war brings. There would be no home field advantage, making it fair ground for everyone. Attacking at sea gives us a chance to block off Britain’s trade and hurt their economy just as they hurt ours. We may also be able to prevent communication between Canada and Britain. There would be no need for a military draft either, which will defend our rights and honor. Are sailors are skilled and our merchants numerous. We should arm our ships and provide them with letters marquee so that they can strike out at British interests. If we strike now, while the British are too busy fending off Napoleon, we’ll have a good chance of winning this battle.
The only flaw in this plan is that we have 16 ships and Britain has 800. But, there is a solution for that; all we have to do is let it be known that we’re siding with Napoleon, not allying, to help weaken his opponent as a diversion. There’s not a doubt in my mind they he will bring the aid of his 600 ships. That way the competition won’t be so fierce.
Option 1 suggests that we go into full out war now because, the British only respond to force. Great Britain has already subjected to force either through navy or its Indian agents to our families on the western frontier and sailors. However, that it is too risky. America is still young, the economy won’t be able to support the funds for this, and pride won’t pay for the deep debt we’ll go into IF we win this war. Option 3 suggests that we delay the war until we’re prepared. The argument is that our sailors are being impressed at an alarming rate, neutral trading is suffering,they have Indians agents helping, and neither our army or navy is prepared. The British injustices are way too severe for this. We can build our army while our navy advances toward the challenge. The British are already in Canada, why wait when the enemy is already near? As for option 4, the belief behind this argument is that rights and honor are not worth bloodshed. Th argument specifies that an entire nation should not be put at risk to protect the profits and livelihoods of a few, Napoleon is too bloodthirsty to be allied with, and the taxes would be overbearing. Option 4 is a total contradiction to what we’ve worked for in the past 29 years. Rights and honor are worth bloodshed when the British have impressed 15,000 soldiers and their threatening us with Indian agents in the western frontier. Taxes won’t be as much as a full out war, and its better to pay taxes than have to rebuild America when the British choose war. Napoleon is bloodthirsty but we don’t have to ally with him. We can still be neutral and have a common enemy. In conclusion, maritime will keep taxes as low as they can be, there will be no devastation of land war, give us time to prepare our army (if needed), won’t completely plunge us into crippling debt, and it’ll give the British the response they wont be ready for.
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If I were to be involved in the decision whether to go to war against Britain in 1812, I would advise Madison to wait until we’re ready to go to war. Obviously the British do not respect us as a country and the only way to gain that is though force. However, the British army is impeccably strong and ours is still being developed. We only have 12 merchant ships to use and no professional army compared to Great Britain’s trained troops and 800 ships that are prepared because of their war with France. If we took a little time to strengthen ourselves we can turn random militiamen into a strong force worthy to stop British impressment on our sailors. Also, during this time we can build up our economy, which is greatly needed to prepare for this war because we have lost our French allies and do not have a national bank to borrow from. In order to gain the justice and respect we deserve from not only Britain but also the rest of the world, we need to win this war, which can only happen if we go in prepared.
If I was advising President Madison on what to do, I would choose option two. I would choose only fighting a naval war because America is unprepared and doesn’t have any money for a war on land. I think a naval war is the best option because you have to defend your rights that the British haven’t been respecting. They are not respecting our rights and honor and we have to stop the impressment of sailors. I think naval war is the best way to stand up to the British because overall, it will cost less money and lives. The United States doesn’t currently have a national bank so it would be very difficult to fund a full out war. A full out war would also risk many innocent people’s lives. A full out war is not the best option because we barely won the Revolutionary War and we had French help which we do not have now. Our soldiers also don’t have the same desire and passion to fight as they did with the revolution. Delaying war is also not the best option because if we act now while they are still at war with France, we have a better chance to defeat them. Also, not going to war isn’t a good option because you have to stand up for your rights and honor. We fought the Revolutionary War to get our freedom, rights, and honor, we can’t let the British take advantage of us just because we don’t want to fight a war. A limited naval war is currently the best choice because it makes the most sense for the economy, military, and civilians.
If I were able to advise President Madison on what to do, I would recommend he take option 3, and delay going to war with Britain until the United States are truly ready. Going to war right now would result in an embarrassing defeat. The United States are just now getting their economy straight, and has shown a disappointing effort at building a strong military. We are unprepared for another war with Britain in both of these aspects, so it would make no sense to go to a war we aren’t ready to go into. Waiting until we have a stronger economic standpoint in comparison to Britain would be the only logical thing the United States could do at the time. Our navy is close to nothing compared to the Great British navy, with the United States only having about 12, and Great Britain having about 800. Our military and navy are no where near being prepared to go into a war with one of the strongest and most unified militaries in the world. America also does not have the financial aid from France like we did during the Revolutionary War. Without the help of a strong ally, like France, America stands no chance against Great Britain until we take time to build up our economy and military.
Going to war, and not just settling for the British, is inevitable though. Great Britain still remains in North America, and still holds a grasp over the expansion and well being of our new nation. We must defend our rights against the British in order to become a truly independent country once and for all. We just can’t go to war and defend our rights at this given time.
Blog #66 – War of 1812 Debate
APUSH/ 1st hour
Dylan Sutton
There is only one true solution for the war of 1812. That is to limit the war to maritime war. Most of our conflicts that are with the British are at sea anyways. Our ships are already prepared to go to war because of the war with the French a few years ago. Yes the British have a massive naval fleet. However; only 16% out of all British ships are stationed in the western Hemisphere. This would mean we could fight our battles strategically through our generals and patiently. There is no way we could fight our battle with total war. Our military is mostly made up out of militia men that are drunkens. Also our army is nowhere near the British strength and the smarts of them. Using ground warfare in Canada means we will have to use Indian guides to help us with the unknown territory. You can imagine if we use Indian guides the British will as well. This could spark wars with rival tribes and that is not what we want.
War is inevitable as one of our options states but to wait on it is just not right. Option 3 states to just wait until winter comes along and destroys the British ships stationed on our Atlantic coastline, but is this really a good idea? We are banking on the fact that the British ships will be destroyed by that winter. There is no way we can know what the weather can do. This is just a too risky of a plan to use. They also state that we can use that time to build up our military and navy, but that is not enough time to build an army and navy strong enough to beat the British. Peace we cannot use because as stated in option three and all other options war is inevitable. Britain will never respect us and leave us alone unless we beat them where they are the strongest, at the sea. These are reasons why we should only use maritime warfare as the option in the war of 1812.